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Posted on September 30th, 2007 at 1:19pm —
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I think that human minds only have so much space for enemies. The implications of this are that the larger the enemy, the less competition between citizens.
Perhaps this enemy of the environment idea has already been thought of, perhaps it is the driving force behind ‘stopping climate change’.
Your idea is that government should be more centralised. While that has advantages, I also think that decentralised liberal-democratic government is advantageous, but both have disadvantages. If you see advantages as neutralising disadvantages, and that every advantage has a disadvantage, you can then create a system that is a complimentary cycle, such as voting and presidential terms. I think that basically, people change and they can ruin any system that they don't see as advantageous. My goal is to make people self sufficient, they say that they should have a choice... I’m not sure about that yet.
I'm playing bioshock at the moment, its basically about a revolution after someone tried to create the perfect society, under the sea. This guy has a few ideas about how thing should work. He says "you should not be a parasite on other peoples work", "the 'sweat of a man's brow' is his own", "we all have our hands pulling the great chain of industry". They all became narcissistic and could only take compliments. Gradually everyone saw themselves as a lone genius. Its an interesting view of a dystopia... a world without humility. It is said that this often happens when people live under a dictatorchip, it changes their minds.
However this is often opposed because the control freaks want power. The problem is that their right. Most people are stupid, and democratic government always ends with compromise and petty arguments. The fact is you can't get everyone to agree on anything!
That is why it think an artificial intelligence should be placed as first minister or senator and used for statistical analysis. However the idea is not to nanny people but to make them more self sufficient.
Mars is a big place, the great new frontier, it would take millennia to terraform it. We haven’t even got past detecting what its made of. To go their now would mean we should have started terraforming from the moment we knew how. I think it is possible that Mars was inhabited and their terraforming missiles were the cause of our evolution. Theoretically we could have been doing it for billenia...
People cannot be trusted to do the right thing. The best we can hope for is that we create a cycle of complimentary processes.
I think a society based on survival training, philosophical morality and scientific theory would be the perfect archetype. If their is one constant its change, it is unusual for one generation to take on another’s work or system entirely.
You'd still get the communists saying 'lets give it a try' and 'capitalists only sell things at prices capitalists can afford'. I came to the conclusion that my society is becouming too dictatorial, and as for being liberal, their fine with giving people what they want but not what they need.
As for the definition. I mean good but not in a religious connotation.
Good = compassion, selflessness, constructive
Evil = survivalist, manipulative, destructive
The answer; comfortably.
Hi you like discussions like this don't you? I thought you could try explain your point of view on entropy to them.
http://fans.askaninja.com/forum/topic/show?id=1181368%3ATopic%3A302753
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ (89) فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىَ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَآؤُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَن يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْاْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلاً
Translation:
"They [hypocrites who war against you] long for you to disbelieve as they do so that you might be as low as them; so do not trust them until they turn away from their evil as God wishes. Then if they make war on you again, seize them and kill them whenever you encounter them, and do not make allies with them (89)
except for those of them who are friends of one of your allies or those who come to you because they tire of fighting you or their own people. And if God had wanted, He would have let them conquer you, so that they would have fought you. So if they withdraw and do not fight you and offer you peace, then God does not allow you to attack them. (90)
You can probably see from this how the Qur'an can be taken out of context. If one focuses purely on verse 89, they would be able to claim that all hypocrites should be slaughtered and killed, but they would have to ignore verse 90 which says that those who are not fighting you may not be fought. For some context: much of the Qur'an was written during a time of war, so I would almost recommend thinking of yourself in a war-torn and oppressed camp while reading it.
___________________
3:20
فَإنْ حَآجُّوكَ فَقُلْ أَسْلَمْتُ وَجْهِيَ لِلّهِ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ وَقُل لِّلَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ وَالأُمِّيِّينَ أَأَسْلَمْتُمْ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُواْ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَواْ وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلاَغُ وَاللّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ
Translation:
But if they [non-believers] argue with you, then say: I submit myself entirely to God and so does anyone who follows me. And say to those who have been given the Book [Bible/TaNaK] and the "unlearned" people: Do you follow the path of God? If they do, then indeed they follow the right way; and if they do not, your duty is only to deliver the message. And God sees what you do. (20)
The basic point here is that Islam is not to be imposed on anyone. The duty of the Muslim is only to deliver the message of Islam. If the person who they delivered it to rejects it, then that's their problem; the Muslim did his/her duty. Done.
3:133-134
وَسَارِعُواْ إِلَى مَغْفِرَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَجَنَّةٍ عَرْضُهَا السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ أُعِدَّتْ لِلْمُتَّقِينَ {133}
الَّذِينَ يُنفِقُونَ فِي السَّرَّاء وَالضَّرَّاء وَالْكَاظِمِينَ الْغَيْظَ وَالْعَافِينَ عَنِ النَّاسِ وَاللّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {134}
Translation:
And hasten to forgiveness from God because a Garden, as wide as the heavens and the Earth is prepared for those who keep their duty: (133)
Those who spend their wealth when life is pleasant as well as when life is hard and those who restrain their anger and forgive others. And God loves those who do good to others. (134)
I find the economic commentary here somewhat funny. It encourages capitalism and monetary flow even in economic depression. I guess it's not that surprising considering that Muhammad was a merchant. But more importantly, Islam encourages people to be good to each other. I think these verses make that relatively obvious.
These are a couple of verses I arbitrarily decided to note on a piece of paper as I read the Qur'an. Generally, I made note of them because I felt they succinctly reflected the message that the chapter or section was trying to get across.
And you're quite right about me being that D-type. But the difference between Icarus and I is that my wings are made of polymer-matrix composites, so I can go as high as I want, and the sun won't have jack-shit on me.
At the moment im beginning to feel challenged by the call to righteousness ...
"His needs are more, so he gives less"
- the song thunderball in james bond
btw,
You may find it interesting that i have classed you as type D, in my mind. That is; when something bad happens in the media it will force the majority to form an opinion on it. You however are one of the small group of Icarus-es that venture a little closer, this seems not to end well in most cases... after all, look at Icarus.
The only reason they act that way is because they are self actualising and pretending that what they want is what Allah wants.
Apparently it has poetry and all sorts of things! It always seemed to me although the extremist interpretations came from the newest Imams and Prophets. Is that reflected in the book? I would expect to see a visible change of pace from live and let learn, to live and let die.
Supreme truth can only demand one thing; supreme power.
While I’m sure its interesting i don’t want that kind of thing to pervade my own creativity, i have already started making a book, and when i say started i mean 17th page. Its basically the conclusions that i have drawn from many different arguments, aswell as things that have occurred to me.
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